Is this topic over-debated? Sure. Does that mean we shouldn’t give it a try?
Should all recreational drugs be legal for an adult to buy and take?
Some starter arguments for:
- Removing criminal market, which is notoriously violent and resilliant
- Prohibition is futile
- Allows regulation, improving safety
- Encourages rehabilitaiton
- Encourages scientific study on substances of beneficial interest (e.g. cannabis, ketamine)
Some starter arguments against:
- Vulnerable people need to be protected against potentially harmful/addictive substances
- The current economic system encourages sellers to foster addiction (e.g. tobacco, alcohol)
- People affected by ‘harder’ drugs are inevitably antisocial and dangerous
- Illegality is an effective deterrent
- Legality normalizes drug use, which should be discouraged outside of medical purposes
spoiler
My intuition is that Lemmy attracts a lot of both USA-libertarian and progressive socialist demographics which both tend to have more permissive views on this topic. Because of this, I chose a more extreme topic than merely ‘safer’ drugs.
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Carlin had some ideas on this subject, decent watch https://youtu.be/L5FvBUqvQmI
My stance leans towards slowly legalizing all drugs completely but discouraging abuse. might want to take time and not legalize immediately to prevent a spike in people irresponsibly using them, give it a little time to “normalize” it being legal
I don’t like having restrictions on access to meds for myself (like if I want to grow or buy painkillers or to be able to get them to other people) and think it’s a personal responsibility issue. However we need to create a culture conducive to handling the responsibility of such conditions and support for those who fall in to addiction and need help getting out.
Just because drugs might be legal doesn’t mean anyone has to abuse them. There’s a lot of things legally available that can harm people.
Caveat; I assume that you are proposing that by default an adult can buy ‘recreational’ drugs without any special permission (similar to alcohol in most of the USA).
Answer: Yes, but I think a higher priority should be given to prescription drugs. Many people use recreational drugs to self-medicate, and there are better drugs that currently require a prescription (e.g. Xanax is probably better for anxiety than marijuana). In addition, the need for prescriptions puts an unnecessary barrier on access to a lot of drugs with low potential for abuse (such as contraceptive pill).
That’s an insightful point to make about (if I may paraphrase) recreational drugs being abused to cope with problems prescription-only drugs are more effective for. I agree.
Seeing how poorly the “war on drugs” in America has gone, It’s not hard for an alternative to be better =/
My grandfather remembered being s little boy in the 30s snd seeing guys selling marijuana joints in the streets at vendor carts in Boston
Is this talking about how cannabis was previously legal in the US, or just a fun anecdote?
On a related topic, historically methamphetamine was widely sold legally in Germany since 1938, Pervitin, widely used in their armed forces in WWII, while Allied nations used other amphetamines, was legal and approved in the US as Obetrol as an exogenous obesity treatment until the FDA limited amphetamines for prescription use in (I think) 1965 and is currently illegal unless prescribed federally as Desoxyn (rare, ADHD and exogenous obesity), and decriminalized [not legalized!] in small quantities in Oregon since 2020. These are not equivalent to the debate topic, but interesting and potential case studies for arguments for or against legalization of those drugs.
Heroin was also legal and over-the-counter in the USA (as with Germany) for many decades as “a remedy for most ailments” until the 1920s when opiates were regulated.
My personal story is just a true story but I think that making hard drugs legal is a bad idea, there’s a as reason why they called heroin addiction the armies disease after the civil war , its bad stuff man. It’ll really mess you up. Meth is particularly horrible, i think weed should be legal but there in comes the issue of of the constitution, its up to the states snd msny states dont want that and on thr subject of hard drugs i dont see any congress in the near future voting to make super hard drugs like that legal. They can easily stop the flow of drugs from the southern border if they wanted to and at the very least make them extremely hard to get. But the truth is there are corrupt people within our government who make profit off the illegal sale of drugs (cia, corrupt cops at very least)
Legalizing inevitably requires increase in rehabilitation and intervention, meaning increased short-term public spending. Long term this tends to even out, or even save money, as income from legal and taxed drugs kicks in and improved preventative and early intervention care means less serious outcomes.
As with alcohol, the dangers are known and can be prepared for.
The “war on drugs” doesn’t work and has never worked. Decriminalization and legalization in Europe seems to work.
As for alcohol; it’s an increasing trend in Finland (and probably other places) that young people drink less and are less prone to alcoholism. I’d think the same would happen with other recreational drugs.
The war on drugs totally succeeded in places like Korea & Japan. Of course, they are constitutionally different and have different levels of access across their borders, both effectively functioning as islands…
Why not try to actually win the war on drugs?
Much criminality and nearly limitless human suffering is driven through hardcore narcotics.
Are you implying they weren’t trying? That isn’t even wrong in my opinion: groups like the CIA and corrupt LEA have had lots of involvement in enabling or even promoting domestic drug use. But I think as a nation state the US did honestly try to win the so-called war on drugs.
You mentioned constitutional differences but I think the bigger issue is culture (related but distinct). Consider the 18th Amendment. Culture, historical epidemics and power structures determine a lot of how Asian countries treat drugs far, far more strictly than liberalism (both ‘left’ and ‘right’ wing) in the US.
I think the concept of winning against drugs is futile, it’s not as if governments aren’t trying. It’s led to weaker groups getting picked off and more and more violent groups taking their place and consolidating, becoming more rich and powerful. The ultimate way to win against harmful drugs is stop people from wanting them, which I think is more achievable than preventing the well-funded, resourceful black market from importing or producing them. It’s ultimately an industry, not some ragtag thing. And even Korea and Japan are struggling with drug use today, with their strong anti-drug mainstream culture. I’m not sure why you are calling it a success there, to be honest.
The CIA was profiting off of the drug trade, so it could be thought of them as not trying. But I am not sure to what extent this is. I think it is also the case that the constitutional rights to privacy in the US are sometimes almost insurmountable, and the police are very crippled by entrapment laws. This would definitely affect the situation.
You may be right. It is certainly not easy. We may be doomed, because the narcotics culture in the US is crippling.
Maybe this could be done by legalizing a significant amount of soft narcotics and only pursuing the more hardcore ones, but it is also the case that people who do have meth truly are addicted to it because I hear it is one of the most ecstatic and wonderful experiences a person will ever have.
I also wonder if, in the long run, it will be as good as people say to legalize these things. Sure, if it’s no longer criminal to possess large amounts of weed or some such, it may result in smaller amounts of people going to jail. But the more long-term health related issues for people may crop up.
Although I recognize that drugs are dangerous and bad, I can sort of see an argument for saying that if you’re not hurting anyone it’s not really anyone else’s business. On the other hand, if you do go out and hurt someone, I don’t think that there should be any chance of getting away from the consequences for the things that.
On the other hand, if you do go out and hurt somebody I think that there should be dire consequences for going out and whatever you’ve done.
I guess a third thing to consider is the fact that opiates are legal. And opiates being legal has caused a massive pandemic of opiates in the US and around the world, and so there’s definitely an argument that that trend would continue.
On the other other hand, perhaps you can take some of the resources that you’re using to lock people up and educate the masses on the potential dangers of these things, in a way that’s actually going to be beneficial. Part of the problem with legalizing something is that it’s considered to be an endorsement. Getting people into the mindset that just cuz something is legal doesn’t mean it’s a good idea is something that would take a lot.
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